tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post150550248380458719..comments2024-03-28T06:53:24.022-05:00Comments on a blog about school: School board chair: Rewards are unnecessary gimmicksChrishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12919030671050831251noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-31189831021726009432012-01-20T21:35:52.438-06:002012-01-20T21:35:52.438-06:00Thanks for the information, KD. Yes, I looked at ...Thanks for the information, KD. Yes, I looked at the links Chris posted, too. That's the biggest load of b.s. I've seen in quite a long time. Commercial free programming. Right. IC school board members, are you out there? Please step in and put a stop to this kind of thing.Dorisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-40318397016477059112012-01-20T14:38:23.833-06:002012-01-20T14:38:23.833-06:00Ha -- "Always looking for gum and suckers&quo...Ha -- "Always looking for gum and suckers" -- I'll have to save that up for a post title.<br /><br />Don't even get me started on the creation of "school stores" to reward kids for their behavior. Do school and shopping really have to be so intertwined?Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07559356125770114400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-40388653586130445522012-01-20T11:46:41.621-06:002012-01-20T11:46:41.621-06:00Here is an email to parents about PBIS in action a...Here is an email to parents about PBIS in action at SEJH. I hadn't heard anything about it lately, but I guess it is still going strong. Kids get SOAR tickets at school which I am presuming they could use at the store. Do school officials really think gum and suckers are huge motivators for junior high kid?<br /><br /> "Hello wonderful SEJH parents! In the near future, you will be hearing about some great feedback from our students about our efforts to connect with students. Part of our success is attributed to PBIS and SOAR, with the SOAR Store being a positive (and popular) addition since last year.<br /><br />The SOAR Store is every other Friday during lunch. The next Store will be Friday, Jan. 27. We would love to have some parents join us to help in the Store and see the process in action. Just email Mr. Behnke at behnke.lonnie@iccsd.k12.ia.us if you would be willing.<br /><br />We are also always looking for merchandise for the store. If you happen to have any Little Hawk items at home that you would be willing to donate or perhaps duplicate presents you have received, gift cards you won’t use, etc., we would put them to good use. We also have a drawing for staff to recognize their efforts as well. We are always looking for gum, suckers and fun school supplies. Your help or donations will greatly be appreciated!"KDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07883213697051461818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-5963254943562101242012-01-20T11:38:43.153-06:002012-01-20T11:38:43.153-06:00Doris, you are correct about my children attending...Doris, you are correct about my children attending/have attended a higher FRL school. It was part of a bullying program...looking at the links Chris provided..it looks like Ronald must specialize in these. I think it was organized by the guidance department. My own hunch is that the program was organized without anyone questioning whether it was a good idea. <br /><br />I was really surprised that our schools would need to look to McDonalds to help them with such a topic.KDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07883213697051461818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-33812561892555056732012-01-17T20:47:13.645-06:002012-01-17T20:47:13.645-06:00Here (and here) are a couple of links promoting th...<a href="http://www.mcrooneyentertainment.com/respect-show/" rel="nofollow">Here</a> (and <a href="http://www.mcminnesota.com/531/45282/Invite-Ronald-To-Your-School/" rel="nofollow">here</a>) are a couple of links promoting the idea of having Ronald McDonald visiting your school as part of PBIS. We are reassured that "there is no reference or mention of any of McDonald’s products," and that "the show is not an advertisement" -- as Ronald appears in his full recognizable costume, including the big Golden Arches logo on his chest. "The students will retain the educational information because it is delivered sugar coated from one of the most recognizable characters in the world… Ronald McDonald!" The education in our school is already "sugar-coated" enough . . .<br /><br /><a href="http://jaspercountyschools.schoolinsites.com/Default.asp?PN=%27News2%27&SubP=%27DNewsStory%27&gn=&DivisionID=&DepartmentID=&SubDepartmentID=&NewsID=31497&ShowNav=&StoryGroup=Current" rel="nofollow">Here's a link</a> about "McTeacher Night at Hardeeville Elementary School" -- wait, won't that cause brand confusion? -- in which teachers "were ready to serve up burgers, fries and a shake from 5-8 p.m. to anyone who walked up to the counter in return for a portion of the proceeds for the school" -- also tied in with PBIS. (The money raised goes toward products that students can buy with their "Cane Bucks" that they get "through showcasing good behavior.") Ronald's appearance was the highlight.<br /><br />And those are just from the first page of my Google results . . .Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07559356125770114400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-5927503921426023602012-01-17T19:51:07.453-06:002012-01-17T19:51:07.453-06:00KD: If my memory is correct, you are in IC and ha...KD: If my memory is correct, you are in IC and have a child or children at a school with a fairly high FRL rate, is that right? And they brought in Ronald McDonald? Wow. If you can provide any more details, I'd love to know more about who concocted the idea, what happened during the assembly, etc. Thanks!Dorisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-47195610979811234612012-01-17T11:55:21.439-06:002012-01-17T11:55:21.439-06:00I'm not sure if my original comment went throu...I'm not sure if my original comment went through, so I apologize if this is a duplicate comment.<br /><br />I wasn't sure where to post this, but I remembered a post where a commenter talks about having community members come in and speak during an assembly, and this is tied into PBIS.<br /><br />You'll never guess what "community member" came into our school for an assembly. It was Ronald McDonald....yes that Ronald McDonald. I'm just floored that anyone thought this was a good idea, or questioned it.KDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07883213697051461818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-17044771891881630832012-01-17T11:50:54.629-06:002012-01-17T11:50:54.629-06:00I wasn't sure where to post this, but I rememb...I wasn't sure where to post this, but I remember this post where a commenter mentioned that a community member comes in and talks about ideas that might be tied into PBIS<br /><br />Well apparently they must do this at our school more than I realized.<br /><br />You'll never guess who the "community member" was.....it was Ronald McDonald, yeah I mean that Ronald McDonald.<br /><br />I just can't believe school officials would think this was a good idea in any way, to take kids out of class for Ronald McDonald.KDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07883213697051461818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-27531185024273472962011-10-07T10:18:07.699-05:002011-10-07T10:18:07.699-05:00By the way, Chris, not only did I enjoy your analo...By the way, Chris, not only did I enjoy your analogy to products liability law, but it also reminded me of a related concept from torts: the "eggshell plaintiff". You take your victim as you find her. The people marketing PBIS should be responsible for how it impacts all children, including ones who are particularly susceptible to harm.Dorisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-85643722234332951542011-10-06T20:14:25.568-05:002011-10-06T20:14:25.568-05:00Hi, Jen--thanks for the info. Demonstrations down...Hi, Jen--thanks for the info. Demonstrations downtown, huh? Maybe I'll see you there!Dorisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-38186605344240609592011-10-06T11:11:56.207-05:002011-10-06T11:11:56.207-05:00Jen -- There's one thing we can agree on: If e...Jen -- There's one thing we can agree on: If everyone in the school system was as willing as you are to engage in this kind of discussion, the world would be a better place.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07559356125770114400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-68647990856211599032011-10-06T09:50:52.834-05:002011-10-06T09:50:52.834-05:00Doris: Thanks so much for your comment. Have you h...Doris: Thanks so much for your comment. Have you heard the term “treatment integrity” before? That’s what I’m talking about with reference to schools carrying out PBIS as it was intended. It is the same concept as in medicine: doctors know that antibiotics are effective in treating bacterial infections. A doctor can prescribe antibiotics to a patient, but if the patient doesn’t follow the treatment plan and actually take the antibiotics, then the bacterial infection will not be treated. Contrary to Chris’s assumptions about me, I have read studies on PBIS. There is more 15 years of research supporting a very specific implementation of the program. If it is not implemented with fidelity, it will not have the same results. It is not just theory into practice, it is practice into practice. Not following the program as it was intended will create different results.<br /><br />I absolutely love your ideas for system-change and hope that we can replace PBIS with an education system that leaves the global economy out of it. Did you know that the Occupy Wall Street movement has made its way to Iowa City? Starting tomorrow there will be demonstrations downtown. I sincerely hope that the movement picks up and begins to affect the changes system-wide that you speak of so rightly. Have you seen the governor’s new blueprint for education? If it passes the legislature in January, there will be big change coming to Iowa--all based on global competition. Check it out here http://bit.ly/qplU3J if you haven’t seen it.<br /><br />Chris: I had to LOL after your comment because I most definitely do not work in the same world as you or many other teachers. All of my 16+ years in education have been in alternative education. All of my experience comes from a non-traditional system and all of my colleagues are in that system. The school my children attend has a staff of many wonderful teachers who have similar experiences, styles, and outlooks to my own, because they work with a very similar population as I do. But I know that not all teachers think the same way. <br /><br />I can tell you that if you are looking for a school for your kids that will individualize instruction, foster collaboration and creativity, and make sure that any rewards offered are not damaging then you should seriously consider sending them to an alternative high school! Tate, for example, is a wonderful school with an excellent staff. They establish individualized programs of study, collaborate both in the building and in the community, and work together to think creatively with their students. Alternative education is a truly collaborative process where students lead the way in their learning and teachers are really just facilitators. Tate is a free public school and it’s near your side of town, too! I can point you to loads of research about alternative education, but I suspect that you would not send your girls to Tate even though it has the kind of educational priorities that you seem to be looking for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-71543065627655956082011-10-05T16:01:53.902-05:002011-10-05T16:01:53.902-05:00Jen -- I agree with Doris’s point about what is an...Jen -- I agree with Doris’s point about what is and isn’t PBIS. It reminds me of products liability law, where there’s a concept called “foreseeable misuse.” The seller of a product can be liable even if the consumer’s injury is caused by his or her own misuse of the product, if that misuse is reasonably foreseeable. I think it makes perfect sense to apply that principle to the “ideal” PBIS versus the way that PBIS is likely to be implemented in fact. <br /><br />The use of candy as a reward is a good example. Assuming that you’re right that the official PBIS program does not suggest the use of candy, is it really that surprising that my own school would end up giving away candy as a reward? You yourself haven’t yet explained <i>why</i> you have any objection to using candy in that way, and have said that you support rewards because they reduce disciplinary referrals. If a school concludes that candy would reduce disciplinary referrals even more, is it so surprising that they would use it? It follows from the very logic that you’ve supplied for using rewards in the first place (and from your unwillingness to consider countervailing harms).<br /><br />Again, PBIS is obedience training, unaccompanied by any effort to encourage kids to think for themselves about right and wrong and how to treat other people. Calling the lottery drawings “ceremonies,” and the prizes “moments of recognition,” and unquestioning obedience “good citizenship,” doesn’t change the nature of the program. It may well be that it feels good to be rewarded for obedience, just like it may feel good to be given candy, but that doesn’t mean it’s good for you.<br /><br />You’ve said that you are also teaching the kids to be critical thinkers, etc. (which inspired me to post <a href="http://mark413.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/cartoon.jpg" rel="nofollow">today’s cartoon)</a>. As a teacher myself, I know that what teachers think they are teaching, and what students are actually learning, are often two very different things. But in any event, teaching critical thinking plays absolutely no role in the PBIS program. How confident are you that all teachers in schools with PBIS are teaching critical thinking like you are? If you think that it is happening consistently in our schools, you are looking at a very different world than I am looking at.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07559356125770114400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-19324082830494578312011-10-05T15:44:36.822-05:002011-10-05T15:44:36.822-05:00(this is the continuation of Doris's comment:)...(this is the continuation of Doris's comment:)<br /><br />It seems evident, though, that PBIS alone has not been considered sufficient to remedy this problem; hence, one recent development in the PBIS world is the integration of “Culturally Responsive Classroom Management” (CRCM) with PBIS. Here’s a link and a sample paragraph from an interesting article on this topic:<br /><br />"Culturally Responsive Classroom Management (CRCM) is an approach to running classrooms with all children, [not simply for racial/ethnic minority children] in a culturally responsive way. More than a set of strategies or practices, CRCM is a pedagogical approach that guides the management decisions that teachers make. It is a natural extension of culturally responsive teaching which uses students’ backgrounds, rendering of social experiences, prior knowledge, and learning styles in daily lessons. Teachers, as culturally responsive classroom managers, recognize their biases and values and reflect on how these influence their expectations for behavior and their interactions with students as well as what learning looks like. They recognize that the goal of classroom management is not to achieve compliance or control but to provide all students with equitable opportunities for learning and they understand that CRCM is 'classroom management in the service of social justice'” <a href="http://essentialeducator.org/?p=4636" rel="nofollow">(Weinstein, Tomlinson-Clarke and Curran 2004, p.27).</a> <br /><br />The article goes on to discuss ways of integrating CRCM with PBIS. <br />I’m still not convinced that you can actually integrate the two models, but it’s nice to know that people are out there exploring alternatives. For the time being, if the school district here is going to continue to use PBIS because “some children” are perceived by teachers and staff to need it, I think parents have a right to be notified that their child is one of those “some children”—and why. As I’ve said before, as a parent of a non-neurotypical child, I would want to know whether practices derived from PBIS were being inflicted on the entire school in her name. <br />What sorts of solutions would I support instead of PBIS? I’d like to see an end to trickle-up economics, the systematic redistribution of wealth downward through progressive tax policies, substantial increases in the minimum wage, a reversal of the privatization of public education, and on and on and on. I would also replace No Child Left Behind with something akin to No Child Pushed Ahead—which is to say I would heartily resist efforts to use public education as a battleground for fighting “proxy wars” around global economic issues.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07559356125770114400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-41288959696325230442011-10-05T15:44:06.607-05:002011-10-05T15:44:06.607-05:00Doris has been trying to post this comment:
I hav...Doris has been trying to post this comment:<br /><br />I have thoughts:<br /><br />Jen, where I think I most fundamentally disagree with you is in your efforts to distinguish the “theory” of PBIS from the “practice” of its implementation. Your foundational assumption seems to be that the theory of PBIS is good, and therefore any practice that is not good or that has arguably bad effects (e.g., a child made anxious about the prospect of being under constant surveillance) is simply not PBIS. It seems to me that I could just as easily argue back that the theory of PBIS is bad, and therefore any good effects you see to result from it (enhancement of self-esteem of children from struggling families) is a result of your own deviation from PBIS in practice. <br /><br />You sound like a wonderful teacher to me—because you care passionately about the well-being of your students, you get to know them as individuals, and you believe in their inherent value and potential. I don’t doubt that the exposure to PBIS, with its emphasis on celebrating children’s achievements instead of berating them for their perceived failings, has given you ideas for how to implement those humanistic values more consistently. But when you look at the PBIS website, it’s just as easy to derive ideas for how to manipulate children into doing what adults what them to do. In fact, I do tend to agree with Chris that it’s actually easier to do the latter because of the origins of PBIS in applied behaviorism. Most centrally, it is everywhere assumed on the PBIS website that teachers and staff know in advance what constitutes “positive” or “appropriate” behavior. The failure to question this assumption is a central reason, I would assume, why Chris decries PBIS as authoritarian.<br /><br />And this takes me to a related issue that I really want to pursue: I gather from reading information from the Southern Poverty Law Center that one of the problems that PBIS is intended to help remedy is that of teacher bias: teachers disproportionately identify working class children of color as “special-needs” learners, and they also send them to the office on disciplinary matters in disproportionate numbers. I agree that this needs to change. It does no one any good if a child whose parents have not been able to provide a nurturing home life is conflated with a child whose neurological system, for example, has developed in an atypical fashion. (Granted, there can be some overlap in the sense that the lack of good-prenatal care, exposure to environmental toxins such as lead paint, and the consumption of a non-nutritious diet can have detrimental impacts on the neurological systems of young children.)<br /><br />(continued in the next comment)Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07559356125770114400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-16206760331178158062011-10-05T15:39:12.844-05:002011-10-05T15:39:12.844-05:00Jen -- The difference is that I am not the one mak...Jen -- The difference is that I am not the one making empirical claims, and you are. I have been clear repeatedly that I haven't read the studies Kohn cites and so I don't know whether they show what he claims they show. You're the one making empirical claims, and I'm asking you to back them up, and so far you can't. So I think you should stop making them. Is that crazy?<br /><br />I'm perfectly willing to admit that there is no empirical evidence bearing meaningfully on any of the twelve issues I've identified. But, as they say, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. For that reason, I would never say that PBIS has been proven beneficial by empirical data.<br /><br />My objection throughout this thread is that it's wrong to say that "PBIS benefits kids," when you're considering only possible benefits and completely ignoring possible harms. Again, thalidomide had real benefits (still does, for cancer patients), but to say "taking thalidomide is beneficial" is so misleading as to be outright false.<br /><br />Your idea of the burden of proof sounds crazy to me. So if I want to inflict some crazy new program on a school-full (or country-full) of kids, the burden is on the parents to prove that it's harmful, rather than on me to prove that it's beneficial? In any event, it's a long way from "PBIS is empirically proven to benefit kids" to "you can't conclusively prove that what I'm doing to kids is harmful."<br /><br />In the end, I think you and I have two very different ideas about what it means to think critically about what you read and about other people's conclusions.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07559356125770114400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-57459920628226489582011-10-05T11:47:19.416-05:002011-10-05T11:47:19.416-05:00How is quoting a research study that I found and r...How is quoting a research study that I found and read on my own different from you quoting Alfie Kohn? Did you conduct that research on your own? <br /><br />Reverse the wording on your 12 issues and provide your own proof: specifically, prove that PBIS does any of the damage you mention. Can you find any evidence from someone besides Alfie Kohn? His focus is on on the culture of reward rather than on PBIS. Do you have empirical evidence to support the notion that those 12 issues do in fact occur because of PBIS? If you can prove it, I will throw aside all of my personal experience as a student, worker, parent, and veteran teacher. I will ignore every last study and I will actively seek the removal of PBIS from the ICCSD. <br /><br />I am not someone who just sits and complains--I have walked door to door for issues I believe in, spoken publicly at events, and written opinion pieces for the Press-Citizen about causes I believe in. Prove that PBIS is damaging and I will take up the cause. I don't want my kids hurt by praise. If praise damages them, then the praise must end. Please start with your own personal experience. Please tell me about the damage you have suffered as a result of being rewarded. Because as Alfie Kohn might say: a pat on the back is a dangerous thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-77354087177741807762011-10-05T09:10:26.631-05:002011-10-05T09:10:26.631-05:00Jen – I can agree that there is research going bot...Jen – I can agree that there is research going both ways on the issue of how and when rewards affect intrinsic motivation. I haven’t read all the studies, and I suspect that you haven’t either, so I have no way of knowing which side’s arguments are actually supported by the data. But it is simply not empiricism to cite one study that supports your conclusion and act as if you have engaged in an empirical analysis. You haven’t; you are just repeating things you have been told (and just repeating the ones that you happen to like). Nor is it enough to quote a study saying that all kids "benefit" from PBIS, without scrutinizing the study's definition of "benefit," and examining whether the study sufficiently considered countervailing harms.<br /><br />Moreover, where is the evidence on the twelve issues I identified in the comment above? Will you agree that there is none? If not, will you identify some, and explain how it bears on those questions? I’m looking at all the links you’re giving me, and I’m not seeing anything about those issues. Is it enough to say that it’s effective at its intended purpose (reducing office referrals)? Thalidomide was effective at its intended purpose.<br /><br />There is nothing even arguably offensive about me saying that these are issues that “parents might actually be concerned about.” If you took it to mean that I don’t think parents would actually be concerned about the issues you’re raising, then I’m happy to clarify that that’s not what I meant. But your evidence simply does not show that PBIS “gives kids in poverty, kids with disabilities, and kids who are minorities a greater chance at success.” You think it shows that because you have convinced yourself that “reduced office referrals” is a fair proxy for “success,” but you haven’t demonstrated that empirically. It is a leap you are making based on the hypothesis that missing “instructional minutes” is the cause of later disparities in income. It may or may not be true, but science is a long way from being able to demonstrate the long-term effect of instructional minutes, especially given the number of other plausible hypotheses one could generate as to why growing up in poverty might affect wealth disparities in adulthood. <br /><br />I can’t help but notice that you are hunting around for evidence to support your empirical claims <i>after</i> making them. That’s not a sign of empirically-driven thinking.<br /><br />Earlier, I asked whether you would support PBIS as long as it shown to decrease office referrals and disciplinary actions, <i>no matter what other effects it might have on the kids, in either the short- or long-term?</i> It’s sounding like your answer is yes. That’s where we disagree, isn’t it?<br /><br />Finally, I continue to think it’s strange that you characterize parents who disagree with you as reactionaries who are selfishly concerned only about their own kids at the expense of poor and minority kids. The arguments I’m making apply just as much -- if not more -- to disadvantaged kids as to every other kid. Not everyone agrees that what poor kids need is more and better obedience training.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07559356125770114400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-59357910683816049582011-10-05T05:16:47.391-05:002011-10-05T05:16:47.391-05:00(continued from above)
If you are willing to acce...(continued from above)<br /><br />If you are willing to accept this as empirical evidence, then maybe you can finally agree to disagree...because it argues that in systems of reward, the result all depends on how the reward is offered and perceived. <br /><br />If at your school, rewards are offered and perceived in a way that is controlling, suppressing, and anxiety-causing, they will damage kids. If they are offered to provide valid information on student’s competence, then they enhance intrinsic motivation. According to the posts here on your blog, PBIS is not implemented with fidelity to its research-based program. If the staff is not using the program with integrity it will not be successful. I am lucky that my children attend a school where staff uniformly support PBIS, are well-trained in applying the program with fidelity to its research-based methodology, and see a great positive impact. I say again, for the second time on your blog: if the staff at your school are not doing the same, I wish you luck in having it removed from your school. If you can’t get it removed, maybe you should consider moving across town! We have an excellent staff and a beautifully vibrant and diverse student body that is absolutely thriving on school-wide PBIS.<br /><br />Lastly, I need to respond to your most recent comment. Specifically where you say, "I ask whether there’s any empirical evidence on the things that parents might actually be concerned about" <br /><br />As a parent, your statement offends me. I think you talk about the things that YOU are concerned about. I repeatedly offer you empirical evidence about the things parents in my neighborhood are concerned about: the way PBIS overwhelmingly proves to be an effective way of closing a growing gap in achievement; the way PBIS is effective in ending a failing system of punishment; the way PBIS gives kids in poverty, kids with disabilities, and kids who are minorities a greater chance at success. Why are you not concerned about those things?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-29494445744525784382011-10-05T05:16:12.081-05:002011-10-05T05:16:12.081-05:00I am posting these a second time. You never respon...I am posting these a second time. You never responded to them.<br />-The NASP Fact Sheet I originally posted presents data collected from all published studies the conducted over a period of 15 years. It's findings:<br />"All students, both disabled and non-disabled, can benefit from PBS." No mention of damage. http://bit.ly/pZjdac<br />http://bit.ly/p1AY8Y This document lists about 100 studies completed using empirical research, including randomized studies and experimental designs. All show the effectiveness of PBIS (which uses rewards) Every study supports the use of PBIS. <br /><br />I had to search to find empirical evidence that PBIS, specifically, harms or damages kids. This is the closest I could find: <br />Lepper MR and Henderlong J. 2000. Turning “play” into “work” and “work” into “play”: 25 years of research on intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation. In C Sansone and JM Harackiewicz (eds), Intrinsic and extrinsic motivation: The search for optimal motivation and performance. San Diego, CA: Academic Press.<br /><br />“The use of extrinsic rewards as a motivational strategy has spurred a persistent and heated debate in the literature (Sansone & Harackiewicz, 2000). Generally, humanistic motivation researchers argue that offering extrinsic rewards has detrimental effects on existing intrinsic motivation and is morally problematic (Kohn, 1993). Behaviorist researchers argue that offering extrinsic rewards has either negligible effects on intrinsic motivation or that it actually contributes to intrinsic motivation (Eisenberger & Cameron, 1996). What emerges from the research is that extrinsic rewards have no universal effect. Rather, the effect depends on the meaning of the reward to the child. Research also points to varying effects of different types of rewards and of different standards for their administration. For example, rewards that are expected, contingent on engagement or on task completion, and tangible are more likely to be detrimental to intrinsic motivation than rewards that are unexpected, not contingent, and intangible (e.g., verbal, social approval) (Lepper & Hender-long, 2000). More specifically, when positive rewards are perceived to provide valid information on student's competence—for example, performance-contingent rewards or feedback—they are likely to enhance intrinsic motivation. In contrast, when rewards are perceived as controlling and as suppressing the student's autonomy, they are likely to interfere with intrinsic motivation.”Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-71182861906354067572011-10-04T09:07:00.745-05:002011-10-04T09:07:00.745-05:00Jen -- Given that your own blog post is all about ...Jen -- Given that your own blog post is all about how you can’t understand how parents can object to PBIS because of all the empirical evidence in its favor, you do seem conspicuously silent when I ask whether there’s any empirical evidence on the things that parents might actually be concerned about. It seems fair to assume that there isn’t, until someone (you?) points some out. In any event, maybe this comment thread gives you some idea of what parents are legitimately concerned about -- not just for their own children, as you suggest, but for all children.<br /><br />I still do not understand why, given your penchant for making empirical claims, you are not more concerned about the possible negative effects of focusing kids on rewards. If it is true that rewards lead people to value the reward and to devalue the thing being rewarded, and impair the development of intrinsic motivation, then PBIS’s use of rewards may be seriously harming the kids, including the struggling kids who you are most concerned about. You seem strangely incurious about that possibility.<br /><br />It is sounding more and more like you are not actually interested in genuine empiricism (“There is nothing that you or Alfie Kohn can say that will make me believe that those rewards, those moments of recognition for positive behavioral choices, will damage those boys”), but just want to cloak your own preconceptions with the authority of empiricism.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07559356125770114400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-86637159336472949952011-10-04T05:31:18.275-05:002011-10-04T05:31:18.275-05:00KD: Thanks for stopping by my blog. The assemblie...KD: Thanks for stopping by my blog. The assemblies at our school are held on one Friday a month, during the last 40 minutes or so of the day. Not much instruction happens in any classroom during that time on Fridays and the assembly is a really positive experience! Parents and community members are invited to attend to celebrate positive contributions of students to both school and community. They start with a 5 min. talk from a community member: a h.s. student who graduated from our school, a Hawkeye team, local fire fighters, librarians, staff from our local HyVee, etc. The speaker is always someone kids could run into in our neighborhood, helping them see ties between school and community. The speaker talks about the pillar of character that is the focus of the month--i.e. citizenship. They relate the concept of citizenship to the real world by telling or showing kids how they themselves are a good citizen, and why they think it's important in their job, in their life. After the speaker is done, 2 kids from each classroom are recognized for positive contributions to school. They walk up, receive a handshake, pats on the back, and either a certificate and a button, or a school-logo'd dogtag on a chain. In between the awards, tickets are drawn from a big box. Kids who were given tickets for being caught in the act of being a good citizen are randomly drawn and recognized again for their act of good citizenship. Those who are drawn are scheduled for a lunch date the following week, where they take their lunch to the conference room and eat with the community members who spoke. It is the opportunity to get some one on one time with a local role model, to interact positively with a community member (something that many kids in poverty never get to do outside of school.) They don't get an extended lunch. No instructional time is lost.<br /><br />Todd Whitaker is an educational trainer who spoke at an inservice I attended a few years ago. One of his main points for teachers and principals is that in a class of 22 kids when one kid behaves badly and the teacher yells, ALL kids end up feeling badly. BUT when 17 kids behave well and the teacher recognizes the 17 who behave well by thanking them, only 5 may feel badly. Recognizing kids who do good things makes everyone feel good, makes the atmosphere at school feel good. Recognizing only those who cause problems makes everyone feel negatively about school. PBIS is supposed to accentuate the positive.<br /><br />Please note that there was no candy in the PBIS assembly. There are trinkets: a certificate/button or a necklace with the school logo. They are not junk, though, they are prize possessions for both parents and kids, many of whom have never felt like winners or achievers before.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-75623226346460916102011-10-03T19:25:21.940-05:002011-10-03T19:25:21.940-05:00http://jenmardunc.blogspot.com/2011/10/being-afric...http://jenmardunc.blogspot.com/2011/10/being-african-american-in-iowa.html#disqus_thread<br /><br />Jen Marshall Duncan has written an interesting blog post about PBIS on her blog.<br /><br />She posted a picture of a PBIS assembly at her kids' school. I don't know that I am strongly against PBIS, but I can't really see the need to devote so much time to it that an assembly is needed.KDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07883213697051461818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-53812924467949320862011-10-03T18:09:28.876-05:002011-10-03T18:09:28.876-05:00Karen--I just looked at a few Montessori sites and...Karen--I just looked at a few Montessori sites and I think you may be on to something! Montessori behavioral expectations are almost identical to those in PBIS, but they also use collaborative multi-age classrooms. Providing a safe and comfortable learning environment is the goal where everyone knows what's expected is the goal--just like PBIS, but no rewards. However, the sites I looked at said that children who fail to meet behavioral expectations would be removed, put in in-school or out-of school suspension. Getting away from punishment is why so many schools turned to PBIS. I'd be interested in seeing how well African-American and Hispanic children achieve in Montessori, since the achievement gap is the other reason schools widely implement PBIS. Very interesting! Thanks for sharing both the Montessori idea and the link to the state's proficiency data. <br /><br />FedUpMom: I am not a fan of the dunk tank. Our PTO president last year considered removing it from the carnival, and we will seriously re-consider whether it returns this year. However, no one was forced to sit in it. The young teacher in the tank volunteered, as did 3 other teachers--2 of whom are male. The dunk tank was not meant to be the purpose of sharing my experience. I apologize if it distracted you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285353362748898720.post-39944224446757287982011-10-03T10:40:27.438-05:002011-10-03T10:40:27.438-05:00I couldn't get past this part of Jen Marshall ...I couldn't get past this part of Jen Marshall Duncan's comment:<br /><br />***<br />Last year I volunteered at our school carnival and was asked to supervise the dunk tank. An attractive first-year teacher was in the tank and almost every 5th and 6th grade boy in the building lined up to see her get soaked.<br />***<br /><br />Violence against women much? Why does anyone think it's OK to encourage 5th and 6th grade boys to dunk an attractive young woman in a tank? Aren't our kids exposed to enough of this already? <br /><br />Just shaking my head ... I wonder what the attractive young teacher thought about this experience.FedUpMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00951858601020687242noreply@blogger.com